SORU 2. Communication failure

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SORU 2. Communication failure

Postby hunsac » 02 Jun 2011, 13:12

Degerli Arkadaslar,
"LTBA'dan Kalkisda PIMAV 1Y RNAV SID uygulayan bir trafikde hemen kalkisdan sonra pist dogrultusu ucarken ve 1200ft'i gecerken full communication failure (cift tarafli) olursa bu trafik nasil hareket etmelidir."
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Re: SORU 2. Communication failure

Postby THY1592 » 02 Jun 2011, 17:05

** Transponder 7600
** SID PIMAV 1 Y demek ki 35 L kalkış yapmışız..
** Mevcut irtifada Erman int. giderim..
** Erman int hold girer 2700 ft kadar alçalırım (11-5)..Bu alçalmada ATC diğer trafik ayarlamasında vakit kazanmış olur..
** 2700 ft mükakip ILS veya görerek yakaşır inerim..

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Re: SORU 2. Communication failure

Postby THY166 » 02 Jun 2011, 18:23

Communication Failure yani Muhaberat Kesintisi / Hatasinda pilottan beklenen "ucus planina gore hareket etmesi"dir , tabii bunun da muhtelif kurallari var .

Transponder'iniza 7600 bagladiktan sonra oncelikle size son verilen kleransa gore hareket edeceksiniz , eger bir seviye belirtilmis ise o seviyeye geleceksiniz ve sonra planiniza gore devam edeceksiniz . ( Bu asamada bir 7 dakika kurali var , duruma gore degisik alanlarda uygulanabiliyor , misal size bir seviye verilmis ise o seviye cikip 7 dakika sonra plana gore devam ediyorsunuz , ya da size bir bas verilmis ise o basta 7 dakika ucuyorsunuz vs. ) . En nihayetinde planiniza gore varis meydaniniza gidip , onaylanmis planiniza gore SID uygulayip akabinde tam prosedur bir yaklasma yaparak iniyorsunuz ki burada da belirtilmis ETA'nizdan maksimum 30 dakika gec inmeniz isteniyor ( malum biliyorsunuz aksi durumda radar/goz temasi da yoksa farkli bir prosedur uygulanir sizin icin)

Velhasil LTBA'dan kalkan bir ucagin comm. failure durumunda geri donmesi beklenmez , tabii yol uzunsa ( long haul ) ve IMC şartlarda IFR olarak başlayan uçuşumuzda VMC şartlar mevcut ise durum değişir . Kaptan geri donmek isteyebilir ancak bu durumda da uygulanmasi gereken kurallar var cunku LTBA'da kimse sizin oraya ineceginizi bilmiyor ve beklemiyor olacak ;)

Detaylar ICAO Annex 2 "Rules Of The Air" bölüm 6'da Communications Failure altında bulunabilir .

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Re: SORU 2. Communication failure

Postby hunsac » 02 Jun 2011, 19:01

Ucusumuz Istanbul - Singapore
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Re: SORU 2. Communication failure

Postby THY166 » 02 Jun 2011, 19:57

Ben adresi açıkça verdim , long haul'a gore devamını oradan alacağı temel bilgiler ile araştırarak başkası getirsin Hasan hocam mümkünse ...

Bu arada sizde bir tüyo daha verin , LTBA'da ve yol boyunda ( en azından Take Off Alternate'e kadar ) hava durumu ve şartlar nasıl çünkü karar birazda ona göre şekillenecek ve uygulamada mesul kaptan buna göre kararını netleştirecek .

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Re: SORU 2. Communication failure

Postby hunsac » 04 Jun 2011, 11:30

Kalkis meydaninda, varis meydaninda ve yol boyunda karari etkileyecek onemli bir hava durumu rapor edilmemistir.
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Re: SORU 2. Communication failure

Postby THY166 » 05 Jun 2011, 04:43

Hasan Hocam,

Arkadaşlar araştırıp daha net bir bilgi bulana kadar ben *kendi* tercihimi yazayım ; "Şartlar IMC'de olsa VMC'de olsa bulabildiğim en uygun meydana gider inerim." ( Dayanaklarım aşağıda , nöbetin son saatleri olması nedeniyle üşendim JAR OPS / EU OPS ve SHT OPS'a bakmadım "considered advisable" yorumu için )

ICAO Annex 2 , Rules Of The Air wrote:3.6.5.1 An aircraft operated as a controlled flight shall maintain continuous air-ground voice communication watch on the appropriate communication channel of, and establish two-way communication as necessary with, the appropriate air traffic control unit, except as may be prescribed by the appropriate ATS authority in respect of aircraft forming part of aerodrome traffic at a controlled aerodrome.

Note 1.— SELCAL or similar automatic signalling devices satisfy the requirement to maintain an air-ground voice communication watch.
Note 2.— The requirement for an aircraft to maintain an air-ground voice communication watch remains in effect after CPDLC has been established.

3.6.5.2 Communication failure. If a communication failure precludes compliance with 3.6.5.1, the aircraft shall comply with the voice communication failure procedures of Annex 10 Volume II, and with such of the following procedures as are appropriate. The aircraft shall attempt to establish communications with the appropriate air traffic control unit using all other available means. In addition, the aircraft, when forming part of the aerodrome traffic at a controlled aerodrome, shall keep a watch for such instructions as may be issued by visual signals.

3.6.5.2.1 If in visual meteorological conditions, the aircraft shall:

a) continue to fly in visual meteorological conditions; land at the nearest suitable aerodrome; and report its arrival by the most expeditious means to the appropriate air traffic services unit;

b) if considered advisable, complete an IFR flight in accordance with 3.6.5.2.2.

3.6.5.2.2 If in instrument meteorological conditions or when the pilot of an IFR flight considers it inadvisable to complete the flight in accordance with 3.6.5.2.1 a), the aircraft shall:

a) unless otherwise prescribed on the basis of regional air navigation agreement, in airspace where radar is not used in the provision of air traffic control, maintain the
last assigned speed and level, or minimum flight altitude if higher, for a period of 20 minutes following the aircraft’s failure to report its position over a compulsory reporting point and thereafter adjust level and speed in accordance with the filed flight plan;

b) in airspace where radar is used in the provision of air traffic control, maintain the last assigned speed and level, or minimum flight altitude if higher, for a period of 7 minutes following:

1) the time the last assigned level or minimum flight altitude is reached; or
2) the time the transponder is set to Code 7600; or
3) the aircraft’s failure to report its position over a compulsory reporting point; whichever is later, and thereafter adjust level and speed in accordance with the filed flight plan;

c) when being radar vectored or having been directed by ATC to proceed offset using area navigation (RNAV) without a specified limit, rejoin the current flight plan route no later than the next significant point, taking into consideration the applicable minimum flight altitude;
d) proceed according to the current flight plan route to the appropriate designated navigation aid or fix serving the destination aerodrome and, when required to ensure compliance with e) below, hold over this aid or fix until commencement of descent;
e) commence descent from the navigation aid or fix specified in d) at, or as close as possible to, the expected approach time last received and acknowledged; or, if no expected approach time has been received and acknowledged, at, or as close as possible to, the estimated time of arrival resulting from the current flight plan;
f) complete a normal instrument approach procedure as specified for the designated navigation aid or fix; and
g) land, if possible, within 30 minutes after the estimated time of arrival specified in e) or the last acknowledged expected approach time, whichever is later.

Note 1.— The provision of air traffic control service to other flights operating in the airspace concerned will be based on the premise that an aircraft experiencing communication failure will comply with the rules in 3.6.5.2.2.

Note 2. — See also 5.1.2.
B. Fatih Koz
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Re: SORU 2. Communication failure

Postby THY166 » 05 Jun 2011, 09:43

Yeri gelmişken yukarıda bahsi geçen VMC şartlarında nasıl belirlendiğini hatırlayalım ;

Image

Bu arada küçük bir hatırlatma dostlara ;

* VMC ile VFR'ı , IMC ile IFR'ı birbirine karıştırmayınız .

MC = Meterological Conditions yani Meteorolojik Şartlar , FR = Flight Rules yani Uçuş kurallarının kısaltmasıdır . ( V = Visual , I = Insturment )

VMC şartlarda VFR'da uçulur IFR'da ancak IMC şartlarda sadece IFR uçulabilir ( özel durumlar hariç ) .

Biri hava durumu , diğeri uçuş türüdür bir başka deyişle ;)

EK : Tablodaki "See 4.1" ikazına yöneldiğinizde ise şu madde ile karşılaşırsınız

ICAO Annex 2 Rules Of The Air wrote:4.1 Except when operating as a special VFR flight, VFR flights shall be conducted so that the aircraft is flown in conditions of visibility and distance from clouds equal to or greater than those specified in Table 3-1.


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