Haftanın İpucu

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Haftanın İpucu

Postby Apollo » 22 Dec 2010, 20:11

Which wind condition requires maximum caution with regard to wake
turbulence on takeoff?

- No wind
- Light crosswind
- Strong crosswind
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Re: Haftanın İpucu

Postby artuncs » 22 Dec 2010, 20:27

Apollo wrote:Which wind condition requires maximum caution with regard to wake
turbulence on takeoff?

- No wind
- Light crosswind
- Strong crosswind



Answer is: Light crosswind.
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Re: Haftanın İpucu

Postby Apollo » 22 Dec 2010, 21:19

why?
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Re: Haftanın İpucu

Postby artuncs » 22 Dec 2010, 21:34

Apollo wrote:why?


when avoiding wake turbulence on landing is a light, quartering tailwind. The tailwind can push the vortices forward which could put it in the touchdown zone of your aircraft even if you used proper procedures and landed beyond the touchdown point of the preceding aircraft. Also the quartering wind may push the upwind vortices to the middle of the runway.

When departing behind a heavy aircraft, the pilot should avoid wake turbulence by maneuvering the aircraft.
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Re: Haftanın İpucu

Postby Apollo » 22 Dec 2010, 21:58

Biraz daha cevap...

Which wind condition requires maximum caution with regard to wake turbulence on takeoff? (not only after a heavy aircraft)
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Re: Haftanın İpucu

Postby THY2847 » 30 Dec 2010, 18:51

Erdal kaptanım soruyu soralı baya olmuş.O nedenle vakit kaybetmeden soruyu cevaplayalım.

3-4 knotlık hafif bir rüzgarda kalkış yapmak pek tabi daha ihtiyatlı olmayı gerektirir.Nitekim 3 knotlık hafif bir rüzgar vortex
etkisinin uzunca bir süre güçlü kalmasına neden olacaktır.Bu gibi durumlarda bir önce kalkış yapan uçağın özellikle heavy bir uçaksa rotate noktası iyi belirlenip bu noktadan daha önce rotate'e başlamak sizi vortex etkisinden kurtarır.

Aynı prosedürü iniştede de kullanarak vortex'ten kaçabilirsiniz.
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Re: Haftanın İpucu

Postby THY2100 » 30 Dec 2010, 22:15

ICAO mandates separation minima based upon wake vortex categories that are, in turn, based upon the Maximum Take Off Mass (MTOM) of the aircraft.

These minima are categorised are as follows:[1]

Light – MTOM of 7,000 kilograms (15,000 lb) or less;
Medium – MTOM of greater than 7,000 kilograms, but less than 136,000 kilograms (300,000 lb);
Heavy – MTOM of 136,000 kilograms or greater.
There are a number of separation criteria for take-off, landing and en-route phases of flight based upon these categories. Air Traffic Controllers will sequence aircraft making instrument approaches with regard to these minima. Aircraft making a visual approach are advised of the relevant recommended spacing and are expected to maintain their own separation.

The FAA does not use the ICAO categories for wake turbulence separation[2], instead using the following:

Edit 11/26/10 from http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ATC.pdf pdf page 616 document page BG-8

"Appendix A is being revised to harmonize FAA weight category standards with those of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). All aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight of more than 41,000 pounds but less than 300,000 pounds maximum certificated takeoff weight will now be classified as a “Large” aircraft according to FAA standards. Aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 300,000 pounds or more will now be classified as a “Heavy” aircraft according to FAA and ICAO weight classification standards. This change reclassifies all B757 aircraft as “Large” aircraft; however, controllers are required to apply the special wake turbulence separation criteria as specified in paragraph 5-5-4. This change cancels and incorporates N JO 7110.525, Appendix A, Aircraft Information Fixed-Wing Aircraft, effective April 8, 2010."

Super - A separate designation that currently only refers to the Airbus A380
Heavy - Aircraft capable of takeoff weights of 300,000 pounds (140,000 kg) or more whether or not they are operating at this weight during a particular phase of flight.
Large - Aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds (19,000 kg), maximum certificated takeoff weight, up to but not including 300,000 pounds (140,000 kg) .
Small – Aircraft of 41,000 pounds or less maximum certificated takeoff weight
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Re: Haftanın İpucu

Postby novemberrain » 30 Dec 2010, 23:51

sami wrote:Erdal kaptanım soruyu soralı baya olmuş.O nedenle vakit kaybetmeden soruyu cevaplayalım.

3-4 knotlık hafif bir rüzgarda kalkış yapmak pek tabi daha ihtiyatlı olmayı gerektirir.Nitekim 3 knotlık hafif bir rüzgar vortex
etkisinin uzunca bir süre güçlü kalmasına neden olacaktır.Bu gibi durumlarda bir önce kalkış yapan uçağın özellikle heavy bir uçaksa rotate noktası iyi belirlenip bu noktadan daha önce rotate'e başlamak sizi vortex etkisinden kurtarır.

Aynı prosedürü iniştede de kullanarak vortex'ten kaçabilirsiniz.


Bildiğimden değil ama sadece kendimce fikir yürütüyorum:

Sami Kaptanın dediklerinin bir kısmına katiliyorum. Rüzgar ne kadar azsa etkinin süresi de o kadar uzayacaktır diye düşünüyorum. Çünkü kalkan trafiğin oluşturduğu bozuk havayı dağıtacak bir rüzgar yok ortada.

Ancak şu noktada farklı düşünüyorum. Kalkışı yapan trafiğin oluşturduğu bozuk hava sıcak olacağından yükselecektir. Dolayısıyla bir sonra kalkış yapan uçak, şayet bir öncekinden daha erken teker kesmişse bu yükselen bozuk havaya rastlaması daha yüksek ihtimal. daha geç teker kesmesi halinde ise bu ihtimal daha da düşecektir.

Bence cevap No wind...
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Re: Haftanın İpucu

Postby THY2847 » 31 Dec 2010, 08:46

Ekrem kaptanım aslında ne yalan söyleyim soruyu ilk okuduğumda bana da cevap no wind diye göründü.Ama biraz daha düşünürsek light wind'de durumun daha ciddi olduğunu ve bu nedenle daha dikkatli olmamız gerektiği sonucuna vardım.

Doğrudur ki rüzgarsız bir havada vortex etkisi daha uzun olacaktır ama bir o kadar da etki alanı kısıtlı olacaktır.No wind koşullarında vortex'i dağıtacak yada etki alanını genişletecek bir rüzgar olmadığından dolayı sizden önce kalkan uçakların vortex koridorlarının etki alanı belirli bir yerle sabit kalacaktır.

Fakat hafif esen bir rüzgar vortex'i tamamen dağıtmadığı gibi etki alanını daha da genişletecektir.Bu nedenle bu tip light wind koşullarda daha ihtiyatlı davranılması kanaatindeyim.
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Re: Haftanın İpucu

Postby Apollo » 02 Jan 2011, 12:51

Image

Image

Bob:

"Vortices tend to move outward from the aircraft. So if you are behind a departing aircraft, the vortex from the right wing will tend to move to the right. The vortex from the left wing will tend to move to the left in no wind conditions.

If we have a crosswind, the wind will tend to influence the movement of the vortices. A crosswind of about 3 knots will hold the upwind vortex pretty much in place at the runway where it was created, while the downwind vortex will rapidly move away from the runway.

Crosswinds greater than approximately 5 knots will tend to break up the vortices. So stronger crosswinds are good things, as far as vortices are concerned. At least the way we look at it, from our perspective; we want the vortices to begin to break up and decay. So light crosswinds require maximum caution, and I'm talking about a light crosswind of maybe 3 knots.

We need to note the point of rotation of the larger aircraft. That point of rotation is where the vortices will be developed. From that point on, there will be vortices off the wings of that departing aircraft. So it’s important that your rotation point occurs prior to the rotation point of the preceding aircraft, because we do not want to be rotating in the vortices of the preceding aircraft. We need to do that prior to reaching the preceding aircraft’s point of rotation.

You want to climb upwind of the departing aircraft for the same reason we talked about relative to the crosswinds’ effect on the vortices. So if the crosswind will move the vortices to the left, our departure path should be to the right to avoid those vortices."

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